Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby the forgotten » Wed May 14, 2008 8:32 pm

poupresinge wrote:...whats really interesting is that the medicines tested on animals arent used on animals. If human beings want to test something, then test it on a human being. Otherwise don't do it. And, no, I don't care if the whole world dies of some disease because they didn't test on animals. Our ancestors have used herbs, not tested on animals, to take care of many problems since our primitive stages....


Define testing here, because all medicines were tested on animals at some point, they saw what animals used to help something, or eat, if they ate it we ate it, if it looked like it, but animals won't eat, we sure weren't eating it.
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby xvxChrisxvx » Thu May 15, 2008 4:53 am

It's just natural for me to consider and feel that the plants really are equal to all other life. As a matter of fact, here's another thing you might think is strange, I even consider the minerals, air, water...all......as equal. I consider that I understand, know and perceive perhaps only the tip of the tip of the iceberg concerning all that exists around me.


Agreed. I find it rather anthropocentric to think otherwise. We are not the only things on this earth. This planet wasn't made for us. I feel that to be opposed to hierarchies you would also be opposed to putting humyns above other species or whatever.


Define testing here, because all medicines were tested on animals at some point, they saw what animals used to help something, or eat, if they ate it we ate it, if it looked like it, but animals won't eat, we sure weren't eating it.


Observing what an animal eats or how it lives isn't the same thing as strapping down a cat, a baby beagle, a monkey, or various other animals and making them go through unbelievable amounts of torture for something that has no relation to them what so ever. Doing this just perpetuates the idea that humyns are entitled to do whatever the fuck they want to whatever they fuck they want. Testing does not mean observing and learning from animals in the wild. I would say that testing means imposing your wants and sick desires, which are primarily driven by profit, on a non-humyn animal. That includes taking an animal from the wild and observing it in a cage.
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby Zazaban » Thu May 15, 2008 2:07 pm

xvxChrisxvx wrote:
It's just natural for me to consider and feel that the plants really are equal to all other life. As a matter of fact, here's another thing you might think is strange, I even consider the minerals, air, water...all......as equal. I consider that I understand, know and perceive perhaps only the tip of the tip of the iceberg concerning all that exists around me.


Agreed. I find it rather anthropocentric to think otherwise. We are not the only things on this earth. This planet wasn't made for us. I feel that to be opposed to hierarchies you would also be opposed to putting humyns above other species or whatever.


Yes, but plants have absolutely no comprehension they exist. They do not care. Isn't it a bit anthropocentric to assume everything thinks like we do? Or even thinks at all?
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby Misko » Thu May 15, 2008 6:17 pm

Zazaban wrote:
xvxChrisxvx wrote:
It's just natural for me to consider and feel that the plants really are equal to all other life. As a matter of fact, here's another thing you might think is strange, I even consider the minerals, air, water...all......as equal. I consider that I understand, know and perceive perhaps only the tip of the tip of the iceberg concerning all that exists around me.


Agreed. I find it rather anthropocentric to think otherwise. We are not the only things on this earth. This planet wasn't made for us. I feel that to be opposed to hierarchies you would also be opposed to putting humyns above other species or whatever.


Yes, but plants have absolutely no comprehension they exist. They do not care. Isn't it a bit anthropocentric to assume everything thinks like we do? Or even thinks at all?


Who mentioned that the plants could think ?
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby xvxChrisxvx » Thu May 15, 2008 9:24 pm

Yes, but plants have absolutely no comprehension they exist. They do not care. Isn't it a bit anthropocentric to assume everything thinks like we do? Or even thinks at all?


Who's to say they do or don't? I'm not saying that they have the same mental capabilities that we do, but I'm also not saying that they are totally oblivious of existence or whatever.
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby Zazaban » Mon May 19, 2008 1:54 am

xvxChrisxvx wrote:
Yes, but plants have absolutely no comprehension they exist. They do not care. Isn't it a bit anthropocentric to assume everything thinks like we do? Or even thinks at all?


Who's to say they do or don't? I'm not saying that they have the same mental capabilities that we do, but I'm also not saying that they are totally oblivious of existence or whatever.

Well, they don't really have brains. How do you suppose this feat is accomplished?
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby xvxChrisxvx » Thu May 22, 2008 12:11 pm

How do you suppose this feat is accomplished?


Well, there have been a lot of studies where plants have been hooked up to electrodes and things like lie detector tests and when threatened or abused, the plant would have a negative response while on the other hand the plant would have a positive response if treated gently. I heard about a study where a person went into a room with some plants and ripped off some of the leaves on one of them and left. Whenever the person would return to the room, all the plants would freak out on the scale or whatever but when they left it went back to normal. Like I said, the perception plants have about their surroundings may be a lot different than ours, but that doesn't make ours any better.

We don't need to know everything about all that is out there. I feel like science tries to dominate and control. That is what our culture is based on. Dominance and control. Science is the new religion for the atheists. If we don't know exactly how something works or what it is made up of, it's a threat to us. So in response, we have to subjugate everything for humyns.
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby Chuck0 » Fri May 23, 2008 12:16 am

As much as I'm sympathetic towards animal rights, I think animals should be used for medical testing. The problem is that corporations and universities misuse and abuse animals. Non-animal testing should be used as much as possible, but I still think that there are good reasons to use animals to develop medicines for people (and animals).

It's like what Derrick Jensen says about eating and using animals. You need to have lots of respect for the animals.

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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby xvxChrisxvx » Fri May 23, 2008 1:46 am

There is no way respect and animal testing can go together. Most of these diseases are made by the conditions we live in; because of this civilization and culture that has created these conditions to exist. Animals don't have any obligation to sacrifice themselves to try to create ways to cure diseases which ultimately just lets diseases continue or fosters conditions where new diseases can be created. The thing is animals aren't even "sacrificing" themselves. They are being forced by greedy humyns bent on profit, production, and domination. In the context of "science" and bettering humyns or curing diseases, that is not justifiable. And also animals are being tested for the most ridiculous things such as bleach, shampoo, cosmetics and a bunch of other worthless commodities etc. Would you accept testing on humyn infants or any humyns for that matter?

And I highly doubt Derrick Jensen would ever be in favor of animal testing. It's irrational. It's disgusting. It turns subjects into objects. It's degrading. All life and individuality is stripped from the animal. It's only profit they care about and there is no way that in this culture and civilization that you could ever have that not be the main motivation to murder and torture millions of animals a year.
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Re: Animal rights vs. Medicine for Humans???

Postby Misko » Fri May 23, 2008 8:33 am

"...Would you accept testing on humyn infants or any humyns for that matter?..."


Perhaps a few more years and we might witness that. Who knows, we might even find out that it's already going on.
I think that as long as these elitists control this "machine", anything IS possible.
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